• Author:
  • Published: Jan 20th, 2014
  • Category: NFL Football
  • Comments: Comments Off on Brady & Manning vs. Otto Graham and Bart Star

Brady & Manning vs. Otto Graham and Bart Star

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HOF

NOTE: Check out the live News, Notes and Rumors show on Monday, Thursday and Friday at 6 PM Eastern on or the archive of the shows on http://fryingpansports.com/radio-show/. On Monday Samantha Bunten of NBC Sports and I discuss the results of the weekend. Thursday shows alternate between NFL Draft and basketball. On Friday Tony Williams Giants beat writer for Metro New York joins Samantha and me to preview the upcoming games.

 

With the AFC Championship between the Patriots and the Broncos, we saw the 15th game between Tom Brady and Payton Manning. Because of that we heard from every sports talk show the ranking of the “5 greatest quarterbacks in the history of the NFL.” Nearly every one was filled with quarterbacks that have played in the last 15 years. There is a MAJOR issue with that. The game has changed more than any other professional sport over the last 60 years. This is not comparing apples to oranges. It is closer to comparing apples to atom bombs.

 

Forget looking at passer ratings or touchdowns thrown. When Otto Graham and Bart Star played, the head slap of an offensive lineman by a defender was legal and anything short of hitting a wide receiver over the head with a folding chair was acceptable. In the current game infected by political correctness a defender will get an pass interference flag for scowling at a receiver. It is not even a fair comparison to look at wins and losses. The NFL of Graham and Star was not diluted with bottom dwellers like it is now.

 

Otto Graham was involved in 10 straight league championship games. While four of those were in the All-America Football Conference, six were in the NFL. He led the Browns to 7 wins in those 10 games including his first season in the NFL in 1950.

 

Bart Star spent his first four years riding the bench. But in 1960 he led the Packers to the division title. From that point Star led his team to five NFL titles and two Super Bowl championships. Neither Manning nor Brady can match those ultimate results.

 

These two men were certain Hall of Fame quality players early in their careers. So when people talk about the greatest QB list based on recent players, they should recognize the differences in the game. While I have no issue with putting both Manning and Brady into the greatest list, that list includes only recent players. Both Graham and Star belong in the “greatest ever” list regardless of what parameters are used.

 

That is what I think. Tell us what you think.

 

You can listen to the podcasts at http://fryingpansports.com/radio-show/ and hear NNR Live Mondays and Fridays at 6PM Eastern time on . The Monday show is a review of the previous week and the Browns game. The Friday show previews the upcoming games.

 

Bill Smith is a former coach of several semi-pro teams, has officiated both football and basketball, done color on radio for college football and basketball and has scouted talent. He edits http://fryingpansports.com. He has also published several novels on and a non-fiction work at http://www.merriam-press.com/. Follow him on twitter @NNRonDSN to get the schedule of Special News, Notes and Rumors broadcasts. You can hear the previous shows on http://fryingpansports.com/radio-show/ and the live show Mondays at 6 PM Eastern time on .

He also edits http://fryingpanpolitics.org/.

To keep up with the News, Notes & Rumors podcasts, follow me on twitter @NNRonDSN.

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  • Author:
  • Published: Jul 25th, 2013
  • Category: NFL Football
  • Comments: Comments Off on My interview with former Browns QB Kelly Holcomb

My interview with former Browns QB Kelly Holcomb

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KHolcomb One of my favorite Browns and favorite people Kelly Holcomb joined me to talk about the pistol offense now being used in the NFL, the risks of a running QB and Middle Tennessee football for whom he does color on the radio broadcast.

 NNR072413 Kelly Holcomb

You can listen to the podcasts at http://fryingpansports.com/radio-show/.

Bill Smith is a former coach of several semi-pro football teams, has officiated both football and basketball, done color on radio for college football and basketball and has scouted talent. He edits http://fryingpansports.com.  He has also published several novels on and a non-fiction work at http://www.merriam-press.com/.

He also edits http://fryingpanpolitics.org/.

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Tonight on the radio version of News, Notes and Rumors

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Tony Williams of Metro New York paper joins me to talk about the NFL from a national perspective.

Special guest Jake Query of WNDE home of the Colts radio coverage and I will discuss the recent moves by the Colts and the decisions about QB Payton Manning and the first pick in the 2012 NFL draft.

Join us.

Also be sure to join Dactar for his Browns Pre-game show 45 minutes before kickoff.  Then for in game chat, join Mr. Moohead and me on http://mooheadradio.com/2.0/ and stay tuned for his half time and post-game analysis (and rant if the team loses or plays poorly which is too often the case).

Bill Smith is a former coach of several semi-pro teams, has officiated both football and basketball, done color on radio for college football and basketball and has scouted talent. He edits http://fryingpansports.com and was a senior writer for .  He has also published several novels on and a non-fiction work at http://www.merriam-press.com/.

He edits http://fryingpanpolitics.org/.  

 

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Bill Smith’s College Player Rating System

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American Football player Peyton Manning talks ...

Image via Wikipedia

nflDraft

By Bill Smith

To see more analysis like this 6 days a week, visit my site http://fryingpansports.com

We all like to evaluate how badly our favorite teams have screwed up the draft. I though you might like to see how I evaluate players. I will be doing a draft rap up here on the Browns and other teams after the draft.

This outlines the system I have used for more than 40 years in evaluating college players for the NFL draft. The system is based on a point system. A number of years ago, I was in Indy the week of the Combine. I ran into a couple of Colt scouts in the hotel lobby. I suggested that they look at a C that I really liked but would probably not be drafted. He wasn’t drafted but the Colts signed him as a rookie undrafted free agent. The player was Jeff Saturday. All he has done is become an all pro for many years and the captain of the O line for Payton Manning. I found him using this system.

To use it, there are a few rules that must be followed.

Rules:

Only use the first half of games except for all star games. That eliminates players taking quarters off or taking unnecessary risks from a blowout.

The point system is used. A single play can generate no more than 5 points for any player.

It is impossible to effectively grade O and D line live. Slow motion is necessary to evaluate plays in these areas.

To get a reliable grade for a player, you must see at least 8 quarters of play. With 4 quarters you can get a good idea but to be sure the more games the better. That also balances the quality of opponents.

Only grade the seniors and probable juniors entering the draft. It is almost impossible to evaluate all 22 players on every play unless you have no life what so ever. Most seasons I wait until the under classmen have declared to do my detailed study of players.

Only award positive or negative numbers for above (or below) average plays. An average player is expected to make average plays regularly. This is one subjective area of the evaluation. However, if you are consistent with your grading, you can compare players in the same position on different teams.

Up to 2 pluses or minuses can be awarded for a play. For example a 5 yard penalty is -1 (pn-) while anything more than 5 yards is -2 (pn=). These are still within the 5 point rule.

Credit the player that deserves credit. An interception that bounces off a players hands and is picked is charged to the receiver not the passer. The D player that forces a QB into the arms of another gets half a sack as does the tackler.

Scoring:

OL 1 point each—p-Pass block r-Run block (lineman pulls or blocks down field and makes the block) d-Drive block NOTE: If a lineman pulls and misses the block he gets 0 on the play not a -.

Scoring for “skill” players (includes the above plus the following):

QB 1 point each as am al (accuracy in short, medium and long passes) tou (touch) xr (avoid rush) r(run)

QB 2 points each aw (awareness/looking off the safety) rd (reading D finding open receiver)

QB -3 points each x(interception) fl (fumble)

RB/WR 1 point each c (catch) r (run) v (vision) add a + for each tackle broken b (block) a (attempted catch of a bad ball) o (get open) d- (drop)

RB/WR 2 points each yac (yards after catch/contact) e (effort) aw (awareness) fl (fumble) fr (fumble of another recovered)

Miscellaneous (Defense or offense)

1 point each t (tackle) ms mm ml (man coverage short, med, long) z (zone) pb (pass blocked) pd (pass defended down field) r (run d) p (pass rush)

2 points each h (hurry QB to inc. pass) aw rd (read play) s (sack) fr (fumble recovered)

3 points each x (interception) xc (interception caused by rush or tipped ball) fc (fumble caused) bkp (blocked punt) bkk (blocked kick)

Only for those that are really into evaluating DBs: If a sack occurs after 4 seconds of the snap, each DB gets a G (group sack) worth one point to each.

In addition, the pn is a minus as described above but if a player causes a penalty he gets a pc (penalty caused) worth one point for a 5 yard and 2 pts for more than 5 yards.

Now I am sure that everyone wants to know what is a good score and what is a bad one. That like beauty is in the eye of the evaluator. O line and D players should average more than 8 points in a half. QB and RBs should get 12+ to be considered very good. WR vary a lot depending on how many times they are thrown to. Those are scores according to my evaluations. Yours may well differ depending on what you call an above average play. It is a tool to rank different players in the same position. However, if you see a player that is not well thought of that scores very high in all games seen, he is probably going to be a steal in the draft.

One last thing. The scores for each player should be listed in order that the games were played. A good player that shows consistent improvement from 5 to 7 to 9 to 11 points during the season moves ahead of a player that is level or moves down from early to late. When you have players with different numbers of games evaluated, use the average score per game for each.

This is a lot of work and not many will want to do it. However, it also works for evaluating pro players but their scores should be a little higher to be considered above average. I hope you at least try this system and would love to know what you think after you have.

This system is copyrighted by W.E. Smith. It is posted here for the private use of our readers and may not be reproduced in any other forum, form or on the net without the written permission of the author.

Please join me for the best Sports Talk anywhere on the Internet and hear his sports show Monday-Friday 8-10 EST on http://www.cleveland.com/dsn/index.ssf/2010/11/dsn_video_live_stream.html

Bill Smith is a former coach of several semi-pro teams, has officiated both football and basketball, done color on radio for college football and basketball and has scouted talent. He is a senior writer for and edits http://fryingpansports.com. He has also published several novels on and edits .

My email is [email protected]

Technorati Tags: NFL Draft,mock draft,2011 NFL Draft,player evaluation,combine,college all star games
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  • Author:
  • Published: Apr 15th, 2010
  • Category: NFL Football
  • Comments: Comments Off on Should the Browns trade up for Bradford?

Should the Browns trade up for Bradford?

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Browns

The latest rumor on the draft boards is that the Browns are negotiating with the Rams to get the #1 pick. It seems that GM Tom Heckard and his team were reportedly suggesting the deal to management. Holmgren put a wet towel on the talk and said today that the cost is just too high. But that doesn’t mean it is totally off the table but may be just under the table cloth. There are several issues here and we will look at all of them.

The Browns considerations for doing the deal:

1. There is no question that the team needs a QB. Delhomme is not the long term answer and may not be a short term answer unless he quits throwing the ball to the other team. There are not any NFL starting quality QBs on the roster now. They could use Bradford.

2. The deal would give the fans some hope. That is something that they have not had in a long time. There was a small percentage of the fans that were excited about the hire of Mangini but that did not turn out well. Most were more excited about the signing of Holmgren. He at least had a good track record as a coach. But he is not the Browns’ coach–he is the Czar. He had those same responsibilities at Seattle but was stripped of the GM duties after a less than stellar series of drafts. I have detailed those choices here before.

3. If they are going to get the #1 pick the best time to do that is in a non-capped year. There is no cap hit for the guaranteed money in 2010. However, they will have to structure his deal in a way to reduce the hit in future years because there will be a cap with any new CBA. DeMaurice Smith and the NFLPA will demand it and any 2010 signing bonus will be spread over the future years.

4. Holmgren is not getting any younger and he has maybe 5 more years to turn this franchise around. The existing QBs on the team are not going to do that. A new one is needed and it must be a can’t miss guy. Holmgren has only one bite at the apple in terms of bringing in a QB to become the face of the franchise.

The Browns considerations for not doing the deal:

1. The cost in terms of draft choices is high particularly to a team that needs so much help in so many areas. The question is how much better would the team be with Bradford vs having Colt McCoy plus 2 other top players?

2. Bradford is not likely to start in the first half of 10 even if he is the first pick. If the team stays at 7 and 38, they should get 2 instant starters unless one pick is another QB. They need so much that 2 starters this year could make a big difference.

The Rams considerations for doing the deal:

1. With the ownership up in the air due to a possible sale of the team, two high first round picks next year could add value to the team.

2. Trading down this year could save the franchise some money. Given the fact that there may be no games next year, that is important.

The Rams considerations for not doing the deal:

1. While a pair of high picks next year is nice, the team would be a lot more valuable with anyone that can spell the word quarterback. At this point, there is not someone like that on the roster. Bradford is a draw and would renew fan interest in the team. Unless this team can rekindle fan interest, it could end up back in LA soon.

2. The risk of trading away a Payton Manning is huge. If they do the deal and Bradford turns out to be a future all pro, the fans in St. Louis will never forgive the team. The Browns know all about trading potential franchise QBs–they traded away 2 of them last year alone.

The bottom line:

I don’t think the deal will happen. The Browns could back out but it is just as likely that the Rams will want to keep the pick and take Bradford.

That’s what I think. Tell me what you think.

Bill Smith is a former coach of several semi-pro teams, has officiated both football and basketball, done color on radio for college football and basketball and has scouted talent. He is a senior writer for and edits http://fryingpansports.com. He is a regular contributor on Cleveland Sports Radio http://www.sportstalkcleveland.com/ Monday afternoons at 1 Eastern. He has also published several novels on

and edits .

Technorati Tags: NFL,NFL Draft,Browns,Holmgren,DeMaurice Smith,NFLPA,Rams,Bradford,draft choice,draft choice value chart
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Tuesday morning QB. Analysis: Sanchez has all the tools except experience in the NFL.

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New York Jets 2009 Football Headshots

Note: I am considering making this a regular feature during the NFL season. Let me know what you think.

When the first all out blitz came from the Ravens, Jet QB Mark Sanchez put the ball up for grabs. Ray Lewis came in untouched and caused the Int. The Raven D linemen Haloti Ngata caught it and ran it 25 yards for a TD. I was thinking about John Madden. As he said in the movie The Replacements, he loved to see a big guy score.

There was almost a second interception when IB Lewis caught Sanchez staring down his receiver. In part because he had been so rattled by the blitzes he never took his eyes off his intended target. Again, the ball never got there because it ended up in Lewis’ hands. Lewis dropped it or it would have been the second D TD for the Ravens. At that point, Sanchez was probably wondering where the red no tackle jersey was.

The problem is in part the same increase in speed that every rookie QB goes through coming into the NFL from college. But with Sanchez there is another issue at work as well—He just doesn’t have enough experience playing QB. Sanchez sat for a year behind Matt Leinart then 2 years behind John David Booty. Leinart was a 1st round pick but Booty was a 5th round after thought of the Vikings.

The history of QBs in the NFL is littered with those that played only one year. The most obvious was the 1999 3rd overall choice by Cincinnati of Akili Smith of Oregon. Smith started only one year for the Ducks and went from undrafted rookie camp invitee to the 3rd pick in the first round. He never worked out in part because he didn’t have the experience or patents to learn the offense. The one thing we can say about Sanchez is that he has patents. He waited for 3 years as USC.

Sanchez has improved a little in his 4 months as a pro. He looked good against the Rams in his first action of the preseason. But the Rams D is bad and he was going against their 2nd and 3rd team guys. Most of those guys will be learning key phrases for their future profession like “would you like fries with that?”

A couple of things that Sanchez is doing now he was not doing as a USC starter. Perhaps the most important is that he is holding the ball much higher as he drops to find a receiver. That is critical because it reduces the time between him finding a potential target and getting rid of the ball. His release has been improved by better mechanics.

He is accurate on the move when he finds someone to throw to. As Sanchez was being chased to the sideline he found a WR open and got the ball to former Missouri QB Brad Smith. The completion was called back for Smith interfering with the DB.

The lack of experience shows the most in his inability to make quick reads of the coverage. There are a lot of blitzes and combinations of man and zone coverage he has not seen before. All young QBs are easily confused. One that has only one year of starting in college is particularly behind. He goes down in part because he is watching the blitz rather than looking down field for a receiver.

I do like the improvement in his footwork. Like all young QBs, at USC, Sanchez tended to have happy feet. He would not set his feet before he threw the ball. He is doing better with the Jets. He showed a couple of happy feet dances when the rush was coming close. But on a TD throw under some pressure, he set his feet and drilled the ball to Washington for the score.

OVERALL: Sanchez is going to be OK. I am not sure he will ever become a dominant QB that would justify the 4th overall pick. He has a lot to learn. The entire organization is new and has some time to turn the fortunes of the Jets around. We all are sure that the other QBs on the Jets can not lead them to a Super Bowl. Because the Jets have a good O line, I would put Sanchez in and let him learn on the job. I have never been a big fan of how much better a QB gets holding the clipboard. Whether he starts or not, the Jets will take a step back in overall record. But they will be better off in the long run. The Colts didn’t win much when Payton Manning was a rookie starter either but that has worked out pretty well.

That’s what I think. Tell me what you think.

Bill Smith is a former coach of several semi-pro teams, has officiated both football and basketball, done color on radio for college football and basketball and has scouted talent. He is a senior writer for and edits http://fryingpansports.com. He has also published several novels on and edits .

Technorati Tags: NFL,NFL Draft,Fantasy Football,Jets,Ravens,Sanchez,Ngata,Vikings,Cardinals,Smith,Bengals,Leinart,Booty,Madden,USC,Oregon,Manningham,Colts
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